Posts by Doug Mason

16

What was Jesus "anointed" as?

by Doug Mason in

it is illogical to say that “jesus was anointed as christ”.

that’s like saying that “jesus was anointed as anointed”.

the question that needs to be asked is: “what was jesus anointed as?”.

The passage at Isaiah 61/Luke 4 speaks of features of the anointing that would be associated with the imminent final eschatological divine intrusion into human affairs. It was not an appointing to become the leader of the religious community or of the royal household. The anointing of people such as David or of the High priest are irrelevant.

Eschatology speaks in terms of release from oppression, restoration of sight, and so forth. Jesus' resurrection was a sign that the final eschatological moment had arrived. His miracles were signs of the Last Days. Jesus had seen the evil spirits evicted from heaven.

It's all mystical and the roles of Pesher and of Midrash are pertinent here. The context of Isaiah 61 is the neo-Babylonian captivity and exile, and it was addressing that situation. Analyse the passage solely in its original context

Psalm 2 is saying that the Israelite nation was already God's Son and that their king was enthroned. Once more the role of Pesher comes into play. Read it literally in its own immediate context, for that was how it was written.

Doug

2

Comments on a range of topics

by Doug Mason in

hi,.

recent brief comments i made over a range of subjects.. https://jwstudies.com/doug_s_answers_at_quora__1_.pdf .

doug.

Doug Mason

Hi,

Recent brief comments I made over a range of subjects.

https://jwstudies.com/Doug_s_answers_at_Quora__1_.pdf

Doug

16

What was Jesus "anointed" as?

by Doug Mason in

it is illogical to say that “jesus was anointed as christ”.

that’s like saying that “jesus was anointed as anointed”.

the question that needs to be asked is: “what was jesus anointed as?”.

Doug Mason

A most valuable book:

https://eclass.uoa.gr/modules/document/file.php/THEOL264/charlesworth%20messiah.pdf

Doug

16

What was Jesus "anointed" as?

by Doug Mason in

it is illogical to say that “jesus was anointed as christ”.

that’s like saying that “jesus was anointed as anointed”.

the question that needs to be asked is: “what was jesus anointed as?”.

Doug Mason

It is illogical to say that “Jesus was anointed as Christ”. That’s like saying that “Jesus was anointed as anointed”. It says nothing. The question that needs to be asked is: “What was Jesus anointed as?”

Anointing in the Hebrew literature (the Christian “Old Testament”) referred to becoming a Priest or a King. If that had been the understanding of the multitude in Jesus’ time, it would be seen as a threat to the Saducees on the one hand and to Rome on the other. Hence Jesus would not want his disciples to advertise that claim.

However, in the Jewish literature from the 3rd or 2nd century on, the concept of Messiah took on an apocalyptic eschatological meaning. This Messiah took on a transcendental supernatural dimension that fought, not against mortal enemies such as Assyria, Babylon, Persia, or Greece, but against powers in heaven, where war was raging. This supernatural dimension was responsible for the Dead Sea communities and similar last-day movements, including John the Baptist’s, which Jesus joined through his baptism.

Jesus is reported to be expecting the imminent final intrusion by God and he expected this Kingdom would be set up within the lifetime of his own generation. He already saw warring evil forces falling from heaven. His resurrection showed that this last day had started to arrive.

Thus to understand the anointing of Jesus requires understanding the Jews’ expectations that developed from the 3rd/2nd centuries, including in Daniel, Enoch, Jubilees, the Dead Sea scrolls, and so forth. This Jesus Messiah was appointed to the supernatural priesthood and kingship through a spiritual anointing (chrio).

15

Sunday WT Study- King of North and South

by truthlover123 in

paragraph 8 dealing with who is the anglo-american power -- they note different images- feet of clay, 7 headed beast which has a 8th head arise, and so on.

the last image is of the "false prophet- indicating this is another aspect of the anglo american image quoting revelation 19:20 and saying the wild beast and the false prophet are one in the same -(i see the as separate entities) -- a/a dual world power.

which will be destroyed... .

Doug Mason

When the Book of Daniel was composed in 164 BCE it was addressing their local situation. The "King of the North" related to the Seleucid Empire and the "King of the South" referred to the Ptolemaic Empire.

Not only did the writers' expectations fail, this was just one of a series of historical mistakes and errors in their book. The main issue for the writers was to give comfort to their community during the oppression they were experiencing, so any invented story that achieved this (for example, chapter 4) was good enough.

In every age since then, there have been people stirred up into a frenzy, saying that these statements were predictions that specifically referred to their own time. Even the writers of the Gospels got caught up and put their ideas onto Jesus' lips.

Relax, folks. Learn history's lesson: there will always be people who take advantage of the gullible for their own desire to control others. Ignore them.

Doug

30

John 5:28,29.

by Lost in the fog in

we used to use this scripture to show that there was going to be a future resurrection.

but recently i got to thinking about it.

if the apostle paul was right in saying that the righteous on death would be changed in the twinkling of an eye from earthly life to heavenly glory why would there be a future resurrection needed for the righteous?

Doug Mason

Matt 24 says not to be concerned when you hear about wars -- these happen because nations fight. It also says do not be concerned when you hear about earthquakes or famines; do not concern yourselves because these are the first pains at the start of a birth.

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. (NRSV)

Instead, the passage warns to watch out for religionists coming in Jesus' name saying they are the "Christs", the "Messiahs", that is, the "Anointed Ones".

"Beware that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will lead many astray." (NRSV)

Hands up anyone who has heard of people being led astray by the "Anointed".

Doug

30

John 5:28,29.

by Lost in the fog in

we used to use this scripture to show that there was going to be a future resurrection.

but recently i got to thinking about it.

if the apostle paul was right in saying that the righteous on death would be changed in the twinkling of an eye from earthly life to heavenly glory why would there be a future resurrection needed for the righteous?

Doug Mason

Those NT passages show that they expected these things, including resurrection, to be imminent and would be taking place in their own time, in their own generation.

Daniel was talking about its own time (the persecutions by Antiochus in the 2nd century BCE) while Revelation was talking about the persecution being experienced at that time by the communities listed at the start of the Book.

Regarding the Gospel of John I provide a few thoughts at:

https://jwstudies.com/JOHANNINE_SOTERIOLOGY_AND_CHRISTOLOGY.pdf

Doug

1

"Origins of Judaism"

by Doug Mason in

if you belong to academia.edu, a book:.

https://www.academia.edu/37026086/origins_of_judaism.

https://www.academia.edu/634821/the_religious_world_of_ancient_israel_to_586_bce .

Doug Mason

Hi,

If you belong to academia.edu, a book:

https://www.academia.edu/37026086/Origins_of_Judaism

and while you are there:

https://www.academia.edu/634821/The_Religious_World_of_Ancient_Israel_to_586_BCE

Doug

3

Process and Content

by Doug Mason in

in a previous life, when we were teaching quality management business practices, we emphasised the need to differentiate "process" from "content".

this required looking at how things were being done rather than any analysis of the internal data being processed.. it is possible to look at the processes involved with the creation, editing, and delivery of any sacred scriptures without having any need to accept or agree with the content of what the people were writing.. the judaeo/christian scriptures open to us the minds of peoples living long ago in cultures that are very different to ours.

i actually hesitated when i wrote "judaeo/christian" because in reality we have the hebrew literature followed by jewish literature.. treating their writings as "literature" opens the field of enquiry, freshening the mind from having any need to become personally involved in its contents.. i am currently investigating second temple judaism, since that period created the foundations for judaism and for christianity.

Doug Mason

Thank you for your thoughts and support.

It is my intention to develop a very simple description of the times. I hope there is power in simplicity. I do not know how long it will be but I will be delighted if I can cap it at say 50 to 60 pages.

My idea is to provide the major talking points and to list resources.

I have modified my Model which forms the backbone of the Study I am working on. Please please tell me where it needs correcting and improving. Note that this is a PowerPoint Show file where each screen is timed to step on after 6 seconds.

https://jwstudies.com/Impacts_of_the_Second_Temple_Period.ppsx

I think that the early dates would be defined by literature such as the earliest version of 1 Enoch, Jubilees, and such. The situation that developed needs to be seen in the context of the community leading up to that period.

The events at 70 CE saw the demise of the Sadducees and gave rise to the emerging influence of Rabbinic Judaism and of the growing Jesus-followers. Rather than ending at 70 CE, the influence of the Second Temple Period has continued. Consider, as just one example, the present-day ideas of a personal Satan, which was a creation of that time.

Doug

3

Process and Content

by Doug Mason in

in a previous life, when we were teaching quality management business practices, we emphasised the need to differentiate "process" from "content".

this required looking at how things were being done rather than any analysis of the internal data being processed.. it is possible to look at the processes involved with the creation, editing, and delivery of any sacred scriptures without having any need to accept or agree with the content of what the people were writing.. the judaeo/christian scriptures open to us the minds of peoples living long ago in cultures that are very different to ours.

i actually hesitated when i wrote "judaeo/christian" because in reality we have the hebrew literature followed by jewish literature.. treating their writings as "literature" opens the field of enquiry, freshening the mind from having any need to become personally involved in its contents.. i am currently investigating second temple judaism, since that period created the foundations for judaism and for christianity.

Doug Mason

In a previous life, when we were teaching quality management business practices, we emphasised the need to differentiate "process" from "content". This required looking at HOW things were being done rather than any analysis of the internal data being processed.

It is possible to look at the processes involved with the creation, editing, and delivery of any sacred scriptures without having any need to accept or agree with the content of what the people were writing.

The Judaeo/Christian Scriptures open to us the minds of peoples living long ago in cultures that are very different to ours. I actually hesitated when I wrote "Judaeo/Christian" because in reality we have the Hebrew literature followed by Jewish literature.

Treating their writings as "literature" opens the field of enquiry, freshening the mind from having any need to become personally involved in its contents.

I am currently investigating Second Temple Judaism, since that period created the foundations for Judaism and for Christianity. Recently, I have been scouring books that discuss the way that the scribes altered their "sacred" texts. (The WTS are rank amateurs in comparison.)

von Weissenberg, Hanne; Pakkala, Juha; Martilla, Marko. Changes in Scripture: Rewriting and Interpreting Authoritative Traditions in the Second Temple Period (Beihefte zur Zeitschrift für die alttestamentliche Wissenschaft Book 419). De Gruyter; 1 edition (29 March 2011)

Zahn, Molly. Genres of Rewriting in Second Temple Judaism. Cambridge University Press (August 2020)

Edelman, Diana V.; Davies, Philip; and Nihan, Christopher. Opening the Books of Moses. Acumen Publishing (2012)

Müller, Reinhard; Pakkala, Juha; Romeny, Bas ter Haar. Evidence of Editing: Growth and Change of Texts in the Hebrew Bible (2014). Society of Biblical Literature.

The Bibliographies of each of these books, in turn, point to many more sources.

Doug